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BRITISH COLUMBIA CLASSIC MOTORCYCLE CLUB
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Author Topic: What did you do to your motorcyle today?  (Read 603799 times)
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« Reply #2265 on: December 22, 2019, 11:51:20 AM »

Looks real good Bill,  looks like you paid a visit to Scotty!
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dicken
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« Reply #2266 on: December 22, 2019, 12:31:53 PM »

Kawasaki has a spec on both chain wear and on sprocket diameter.  Chain wear is done by measuring the length of 20 links and comparing to their spec.  Mine is fine.  For the sprocket, while it was off, I thought I would measure it.  But it's just given me other things to think about.  For one thing, a smaller diameter rear sprocket means the engine will rev higher at highway speed. 

I need to measure the front sprocket now.

Engine cases are back together with a new Tsubaki cam chain and ready to put back in the frame for reassembly.  But I need to sand and paint the downtubes first.

i thought that a smaller sprocket meant lower revs.


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current rides-60 triumph chopper-98 triumph sprint executive-80 honda 750f.
current project-71 ducati 450 scrambler
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« Reply #2267 on: December 22, 2019, 02:52:11 PM »

Vapour blast is amazing isn't it John?

dicken, Yup!  You're right!  I got it backwards.  

The service manual says front and rear sprockets are 15 and 35 teeth each.  This gives a final drive ratio of 2.33.  

According to the book (Photo below) the standard rear diameter is 217.4 mm and the standard front is about 85.86 mm.  This gives a ratio of 2.53, which is too high according to the number of teeth on standard sprockets.  But if I use the NOS diameter of 201 mm the ratio is 2.34, which is essentially what it's supposed to be based on teeth.  (I've asked someone who has a NOS original sprocket and he says it's 201 mm.  So my rear sprocket at 200.8 mm is correct and the service manual appears to be incorrect.  (217.4 mm)

Now here's where it gets interesting.  I run a 16 tooth front sprocket for reasons I don't want to get into here.  So my final drive ratio should be 35/16, or about 2.19.  But my front sprocket is only 86 mm dia at the root, so my final drive ratio according to sprocket diameter is 2.34.  The only way the drive ratio can be something else is if the teeth on the front don't match the teeth on the rear.  And since my rear sprocket is correct then I must assume the front is incorrect.  In order to get a 2.19 drive ratio the front sprocket should be about 92 mm dia.  But it's only 86 mm.  How can that be?  The only way it can be is if the teeth on the front are different than the ones on the rear and THAT is a serious issue for the chain, which expects the distance between teeth on both sprockets to be the same.

« Last Edit: December 22, 2019, 02:55:23 PM by hardrockminer » Logged

Past rides include a 1973 Suzuki GT380 & a 1975 Kawasaki Z1B

I currently ride a 1975 Kawasaki Z1B - Classic Plated
I also ride a 1980 Kawasaki KZ 1000 LTD - Classic Plated, and a 2006 Honda Goldwing with a Daytona 2+2 sidecar

My Sweetums rides a 2019 Suzuki DR650
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« Reply #2268 on: December 22, 2019, 04:16:03 PM »

Is that a Clymer manual?

I've found their manuals to be chock full of errors.
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« Reply #2269 on: December 22, 2019, 05:32:01 PM »

The tooth has a crest aka top, and a root aka the bottom...except if you are in OZ.
 So try this, measure a roller and add that dia to the root measurement. That should get you the pitch centerline.

I don't know if Honda used that measuring method, but I know I can check one with 3 links of chain with my eyes closed,  and tell if it's worn.
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Feel free to discuss anything I post on here, its an open forum, and I welcome comments and discussion.. I am not the kid who parades his Bat & Ball at the ballpark, but wont let anyone else play with it..
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« Reply #2270 on: December 23, 2019, 06:04:34 AM »

The manual is the original Kawasaki shop service manual.

The chain is OK...just bothered by the non matching sprockets.  KHI doesn't sell them anymore, otherwise I would buy from them.

Frame is painted.  Looks much better!
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Past rides include a 1973 Suzuki GT380 & a 1975 Kawasaki Z1B

I currently ride a 1975 Kawasaki Z1B - Classic Plated
I also ride a 1980 Kawasaki KZ 1000 LTD - Classic Plated, and a 2006 Honda Goldwing with a Daytona 2+2 sidecar

My Sweetums rides a 2019 Suzuki DR650
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« Reply #2271 on: December 23, 2019, 12:16:39 PM »

Bill,

Painted frame?  Thought you were going to powder coat.
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Past rides:
75 Honda CB750K5
80 Suzuki TS250
 ? Yamaha Maxim 550
73 Z1 900
76 Kz900 A1
77 Kz1000 A1
78 Kz1000 B2 Ltd
79 Kz1000 B3 Ltd
80 Kz1000 C
99 Triumph Tiger 900
84 Honda VF750 Interceptor
77 Honda CB750


Current ride:
2019 Yamaha Tracer900

Current project:
1975 Honda CB750K5
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« Reply #2272 on: December 23, 2019, 05:37:46 PM »

I powder coated the other Z1.  It turned out great!  But this one still has a lot of original paint in excellent condition.  It was only peeling a bit on some spots on the down tubes.  So I sanded them and painted with POR 15 gloss black.
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Past rides include a 1973 Suzuki GT380 & a 1975 Kawasaki Z1B

I currently ride a 1975 Kawasaki Z1B - Classic Plated
I also ride a 1980 Kawasaki KZ 1000 LTD - Classic Plated, and a 2006 Honda Goldwing with a Daytona 2+2 sidecar

My Sweetums rides a 2019 Suzuki DR650
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« Reply #2273 on: December 23, 2019, 07:24:20 PM »

Just my opinion, but if when doing a restoration, it was originally painted, it should again be painted not powder coated.  A discerning eye can tell the difference.  Just my opinion.
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Past rides:
75 Honda CB750K5
80 Suzuki TS250
 ? Yamaha Maxim 550
73 Z1 900
76 Kz900 A1
77 Kz1000 A1
78 Kz1000 B2 Ltd
79 Kz1000 B3 Ltd
80 Kz1000 C
99 Triumph Tiger 900
84 Honda VF750 Interceptor
77 Honda CB750


Current ride:
2019 Yamaha Tracer900

Current project:
1975 Honda CB750K5
hardrockminer
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« Reply #2274 on: December 24, 2019, 06:13:41 AM »

Powder coat IS painting Ross.  It's just a different way of applying the paint. 

Do you know anyone who does electrostatic painting?  That's how it was done back in the factory.
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Past rides include a 1973 Suzuki GT380 & a 1975 Kawasaki Z1B

I currently ride a 1975 Kawasaki Z1B - Classic Plated
I also ride a 1980 Kawasaki KZ 1000 LTD - Classic Plated, and a 2006 Honda Goldwing with a Daytona 2+2 sidecar

My Sweetums rides a 2019 Suzuki DR650
754
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« Reply #2275 on: December 24, 2019, 10:00:23 AM »

Powder coat is painting .
 Dip coating is painting.
Spray painting us painting.
Brush painting is another .
 However , usually only  one is the factory method, and that one is used in  a restoration.
 All of them can be used in a restomod.using a method the factory did not have available when bike was made is definitely a mod.

So probably a lot of 1920 or earlier bikes are  painted the wrong way when they are worked on.

Off to find a guy that can mig weld and leave bits of mig wire sticking out in corners..
« Last Edit: December 24, 2019, 03:28:23 PM by 754 » Logged

Feel free to discuss anything I post on here, its an open forum, and I welcome comments and discussion.. I am not the kid who parades his Bat & Ball at the ballpark, but wont let anyone else play with it..
..VaaV....
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« Reply #2276 on: December 24, 2019, 10:38:06 AM »

Yep.  To be honest, I gotta call my bikes restomods.  Nice bikes, but not exact restorations. 
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Past rides:
75 Honda CB750K5
80 Suzuki TS250
 ? Yamaha Maxim 550
73 Z1 900
76 Kz900 A1
77 Kz1000 A1
78 Kz1000 B2 Ltd
79 Kz1000 B3 Ltd
80 Kz1000 C
99 Triumph Tiger 900
84 Honda VF750 Interceptor
77 Honda CB750


Current ride:
2019 Yamaha Tracer900

Current project:
1975 Honda CB750K5
Twisted_Twin
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15/16ths of the world uses the metric system.


« Reply #2277 on: December 24, 2019, 10:48:27 AM »

Off to find a guy that can mig weld and leave bits of mig wire sticking out in corners..

Try these guys: https://orangecountychoppers.com/
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It's important to feel comfortable in your own skin because it's illegal to wear someone else's.
hardrockminer
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« Reply #2278 on: December 24, 2019, 02:36:05 PM »

Yep.  To be honest, I gotta call my bikes restomods.  Nice bikes, but not exact restorations. 

I think the term "exact restoration" has to be defined.  Here's a couple of examples to illustrate what I mean. 

If I put new jets in the carbs is it now a restomod?  If I re-chrome the rims using today's chrome techniques (Kawasaki rim chrome had a particular finish) does that make it a restomod?  If I use a spray bomb to rebuild the handlebar controls is the bike now a restomod?  How about if I put today's engine oil in the bike?  Each of us has an internal idea of what "exact restoration" means but there is always a level of detail beyond our internal test, and that goes for every restorer out there.

On many older restorations some parts are no longer made and can no longer be found.  I met a guy in Logan Lake who was restoring a Brough.  He fabricated the head for his engine because it's a part that cannot be found.  He also fabricated a fender along with a few other bits and pieces.  He's a wizard machinist and I would not be the guy to tell him he has a restomod. 

Kevin's Z1 is as close as I've ever seen to 100% original, but he still is looking for a couple of parts that he needs to complete it.  He could find parts that look correct and we would never know unless he told us what they were.  But he knows.

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Past rides include a 1973 Suzuki GT380 & a 1975 Kawasaki Z1B

I currently ride a 1975 Kawasaki Z1B - Classic Plated
I also ride a 1980 Kawasaki KZ 1000 LTD - Classic Plated, and a 2006 Honda Goldwing with a Daytona 2+2 sidecar

My Sweetums rides a 2019 Suzuki DR650
754
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« Reply #2279 on: December 24, 2019, 03:38:31 PM »

It depends how accurate the replacement part is , and the big one... if it is disclosed and documented.
 Kevin is waiting for those few parts because he wants genuine, and the bike will probably be worth it and it will be higher value.

 If you took it to an AMCA show the judge's will sure tell you what yours does not have..
 Good , better , best.
 Easy, a bit difficult , excruciatingly hard.
 This is why original unmolested bikes bring higher prices. MY 69 Sandgate 750 was missing very little, makes a huge difference when there are 50 parts that are different between a #500 bike and a # 7400.
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Feel free to discuss anything I post on here, its an open forum, and I welcome comments and discussion.. I am not the kid who parades his Bat & Ball at the ballpark, but wont let anyone else play with it..
..VaaV....
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